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Talk:Charge (warfare)/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Charge Photo

I am the Army journalist/photographer who took the charge photo at the top of the page. Although the photo was taken at a 15th SB event, the Horse Cavalry Detachment depicted is from the 1st Cavalry Division. Follow the link to the original file at army.mil and you can see for yourself. Thank you for putting my photo on their though, whoever did that. I always like to see my work get well circulated. -Matt Cooley

How does one counter a charge? Linked articles on wheel-strategy, falling back, etc. would be useful.

Too Polish

The article is a bit polonocentric... I'm changing it. There were more famous charges than those from the Polish-Soviet War and the September Campaign ("Polish Defensive War" is not as widely used). I think Pickett's Charge and the Charge of the Light Brigade would be better representations for an English-language audience. Cossack 20:22, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Impetuous charges

This could do with a section on impetuous charges such as

m.e. 01:01, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I think you could add the Prunaru charge in this section.It was a romanian cavalry charge of the 9 Rosiori Regiment led by general Referandru in the second world war.From 5000 soldiers under a 100 survived.However it was of great strategic importance to the defense of Bucharest in the following months. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.114.3.35 (talk) 21:14, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Famous charges

Why isn't the charge of Beersheba mentioned?

124.183.172.88 15:18, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the "last successful charge in history" from the Battle of Isbuscenskij. There have been many others since 1942. Of particular interest is the use of Soviet horse cavalry against Japanese infantry in northern China in 1945. Unfortunately this is one of the least studied campaigns in history and there isn't much information out there so they are not really famous. There were a few notable bayonet charges in Korea and Vietnam but they were not really significant parts of a well known battle or operation, however I have included the Battle of Mount Tumbledown. There were some notable mounted charges against Soviet tanks in Afghanistan in the 1980s (the Mujahideen were quite adept at firing RPGs from horseback) and Northern Alliance repeated these tactics in 2001, but these were not regular troops so I don't know how (or even if) they should be included.

I also changed the description of the Battle of Beersheba to "mounted" as the Light Horse were mounted infantry, not cavalry. They usually fought dismounted. The Turks and Germans knew this and usually waited for them to dismount before opening fire. The fact that the 4th Light Horse didn't dismount and had covered more than a mile before charging was one of the factors contributing to the success of the operation. They got under the guns very quickly. Dbromage 03:07, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

why no mention of the charge of eylau, the greatest charge in history with more than 11000 horses? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.71.227.28 (talk • contribs)

"Greatest" is a subjective term. In any case, the largest cavalry charge in history was the Battle of Vienna with 20,000 horses. Dbromage [Talk] 02:12, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Last British cavalry charge

Most sources claim the Battle of Omdurman was the last, however the British Army's web site says "the last weeks of the War found both the 5th Dragoon Guards and the 7th Dragoon Guards in action again on horseback; the 5th capturing or killing over seven hundred German troops when they attacked a troop train at Harbonnieres, and the 7th claiming the last cavalry action of the War when they captured the town of Lessines on the 11th November 1918."[1] Other reports do confirm that the 7th Dragoons launched an opportunistic operation to capture Lessines only 10 minutes before the end of the war.

There are also accounts of combined British and Indian horse cavalry charging Japanese positions in Burma in 1942. Need to find reliable sources for this. Dbromage [Talk] 02:36, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

In fact there is no mention in the Battle of Omdurman that it was the last British cavalry charge in battle. More recent accounts suggest this is a myth started by none other than Winston Churchill so he could claim he was part of the last British cavalry charge. Dbromage [Talk] 09:03, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
It wasn't the last - the Relief of Kimberley was 2 years later. Socrates2008 (Talk) 22:29, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Hastings and Keegan

I have researched cavalry charges and found that horses can be trained to charge at a gallop into solid infantry I think that section on Keegan needs to be revised.

As for Hastings I have found that the norman infantry went in first and were rudely handled the norman cavalry went to their rescue and performed admirably (as well as casting doubt on Keegan's theory) and the Norman cavalry won the day after all.

I think that, that section needs revising as well.

Polish Winged Hussar (talk) 16:34, 3 March 2010 (UTC) Polish Winged Hussar

Infantry charges

The section heading structure chosen for the article has clearly been thematic rather than strictly historical. The obvious missing theme is the infantry charge. I've made slight adjustments to the section titles to allow this to be easily accommodated. I will when I have time return with some historical material for this section, probably starting with the charge at Marathon. I hope others with expertise will tackle the issue of bayonet charges from the 18th. century to present.Monstrelet (talk) 18:40, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Cavalry Charge First Appeared in the Middle Ages?

Im not quite sure how this makes sense, didn't Alexander the Great win most of his battles with well timed cavalry charges whilst simultaneously defending against Persian cavalry charges? Not to mention the Punic Wars where Carthaginian cavalry was instrumental at Trebia, Tresimene and Cannae. The decisive moment at the Battle of Alesia was when Caesar and 6000 cavalry charged the Gauls at the gap in the circumvillation. Cavalry was the determining factor at both battles at Chaeronea, in 338 BC and 86 BC. These are just some examples. The point is that the Normans didn't invent the cavalry charge, or even the heavy cavalry charge as Persian cataphracts were performing that role well before the 11th century, shouldn't this be changed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.214.202 (talk) 13:23, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

The contentious passages have been removed. By all means add means add comments as above about charges in Ancient times. I hope to return with a bit more on medieval charges laterMonstrelet (talk) 15:42, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
Ok, introduction to medieval charges now rewritten. More could be added on later charges. However, it is perhaps more important to consider the development of cavalry tactics and it's adaption to mounted firearms in the rennaissance, shot v. arme blanche and the development of cavalry tactics from the seventeenth to 19th. centuries. Monstrelet (talk) 13:55, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Pre history

"It must be assumed" that seeking to hastily close (using the assault's momentum as a tactical asset) was a feature of prehistoric warfare seems a strong statement, if not plain wrong. All our observations of pre-state conflict suggest that close combat is only sought when one side is seeking to press a major pre-existing advantage (surprise or happening upon an isolated handful of the enemy) - significant confrontations, ie tens/hundreds of warriors facing-off against each other, are almost universally dominated by an exchange of missiles and an unwillingness (or lack of suitable coordination) to close en masse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.49.174.153 (talk) 22:00, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Fair comment but, being pre-history, we lack evidence one way or the other. A lot of reconstructions of pre-historic warfare draw by analogy on the fighting styles of "primitive" tribes in more modern times. So we can make the assumption (and it is no more) that pre-historic warfare was all shouting and throwing things but then we have to postulate the invention of the charge at some point prior to recorded history, because we know it existed in historical time. As it seems so basic a thing, it is hard to image one person inventing the charge but rather it arose in numerous places over time as a response to circumstances. So assuming pre-historic peoples at some point closed rapidly with opponents seems a perfectly logical deduction.Monstrelet (talk) 10:48, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Also remember that "prehistoric" doesn't just mean palaeolithic bands of hunter-gatherers. It includes the Bronze Age and Iron Age, and people like the Celts and Germans who we know did use charges (because they fought against people like the Romans who weren't prehistoric). Iapetus (talk) 16:31, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:07, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Not that I have an opinion about deletion but the deletion nomination was open for only two hours. It is supposed to be seven days. Monstrelet (talk) 16:40, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Indian cavalry brigade at Haifa

This suggestion was incorrectly placed on in the article. rather than just delete, I've moved it here in case anyone can provide the details.

The charge of the Indian Cavalry Brigade consisting of the Jodhpur and Mysore Lancers at the Battle of Haifa, was perhaps more noteworthy than the Australian Light Horse [This requires a better entry by a more knowledgeable person].Monstrelet (talk) 12:25, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

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